Game: Spot the CoE Plot Holes!

[a_silver_story]

This started in another thread ... thought maybe you'd all like to join in. Warnings for Honest Children of Earth Bashing.

Spot the Plot Holes!

Day One

An SUV with a triple deadlock seal is nicked by some chavs when the Doctor isn't able to unlock deadlock seals with his sonic screwdriver. - caz251 - I think the chavs bricked the windows. Y'know ... the bulletproof windows that bullets can't get through but apparently bricks can? The magic ones? [- Silver]

How come, in Countrycide Ianto can track the SUV using his PDA ... but with the entire Hub at his disposal doesn't even bother?

Why was Rhys in a van at that time in the morning? If he was on his way to work, he'd be in his car. He's transport manager - he wouldn't be in a van at that time of the morning (if at all). - caz251

Ianto tells his sister that it's just Jack he's attracted to, when in previous Torchwood books he's commented on the sexual attractiveness of other men, made out with other men and in The Twilight Streets openly referred to himself as bisexual.

Why does Bridget Spears give Lois (a temp, who has her first day at the office) her password, that gives Lois access to all the super secret government stuff including killing orders?
Even if it was necessary in the beginnig, how can Bridget not change the password later on? - sawyer4kate

Presumably the government wanted to kill Jack because he knew about and participated in the 1965 incident. But, if Jack hadn't spoken about before, why did they assume he would now? Why would they want to kill the planet's best chance of defeating its enemy? - sophyl

If Jack inexplicably had to be killed, why was it necessary to kill Gwen and Ianto? Wouldn't an alien-fighting organization be a help rather than a hindrance in this situation? - sophyl

Hello, remember the rift, that volatile entity the hub is centered on? Wouldn't a Big Spiky Metal Bomb being detonated on top of it cause a massive crater where Cardiff used to be or at the very least, an enormous hole right through the middle of time and space? - sophyl

Psst, Bridget, here is a super top secret order to assassinate everyone who knew about the 1965 government deal with the aliens, so make sure you order the hit in an e-mail sent under your username. - sophyl

Jack couldn't feel that Big Spiky Metal Bomb in his stomach - really? WTF? Did you see the size of that thing on the scan?

Big Spiky Metal Bomb ... with a two mile blast radius that in reality would have killed Ianto on Day One, (what with him being only a few meters away) and most of the Plass. with about 4 seconds left, Ianto isn't really even at the top of the lift and only walks away with a scratch. He's not sent flying through the air or have broken bones or anything. - diggybear

Why did all the London buses have "Arriva Wales" public travel services logos on the side?

After the explosion, we see Gwen gets a tongue of fire whipping up right in her face and she falls back afterwards. Beginning of day 2, she has no burns on her face, just trouble with her vision and can't hear anything.

I am sorrym but someone who was in such close proximity to fire would have mark after that (hair burn etc) - jpren678


Day Two

Should we even bother to mention how Gwen and Ianto miraculously evaded the snipers? - alinoradesancto

We saw at the end of Day One that Johnson and her men were sat in a vehicle rather close to the Plass - so where was she when Ianto and Gwen surfaced from the two-mile blast radius bomb that somehow didn't kill them?

We know from previous episodes of TW that there's a huge mortuary/morgue full of dead ex-Torchies, aliens, weevils, etc, at the hub. So after the huge bomb blast, the area should have been littered with body parts, human and non-human - not just Jack's. - flobberchops

Jack's body parts - so the bits they found they put in a body bag and they re-knit themselves into a new Jack. So what did the bits of body they didn't find do? Did they also grow into new Jacks - are there multiple Jacks now running around generated from all the bits? - flobberchops

Ianto, using only a number plate and (his sister's laptop managed to track down a vehicle but yet again failed to search for the SUV? - alinoradesancto

Ianto was far enough away that he had to use binoculars to see what was going on but could still hear Jack scream? (And know it was Jack?) - alinoradesancto

The concrete cell took an afternoon to dry solid, when a much thinner pavement takes about a day, and a poured concrete wall about - oh - three?

Look at the size of the cell Jack was in via the CCTV and compare it to the size of the concrete slab Ianto ripped out of the wall. Jack would have had to be standing up in the cell for it to be shaped that way. - helenscho

Said concrete block could also be lifted by an 8 tonne limit tractor [despite weighing in the region of 40 - no offence Mr. Barrowman.]

How would Ianto know the depth and height of the foundations behind the wall to get the aim of the fork lift right and not break the prongs on the concrete block (or the bricks, for that matter ...)

The tractor not falling off the edge of the quarry that didn't appear in any ariel shots of the vicinity, but must have been close because they remained miraculously uncaptured ...

Ianto drops the concrete slab containing Jack into the quarry, freeing him. Realistically speaking, Jack should have been pulled apart once again since the hard concrete having been adhered to the soft tissue wouldn't simply have detached. - there's also the fact that being encased in concrete like that sucks all the water from your body and leaves burns. - ice_whisper

why didn't Jack have any concrete in his orifices? It might not be glamourous to watch, but JB pulling a concrete stick out of his arse would've been wonderfully realistic after being trapped in a Magi-Dry© concrete cell ...

The atmosphere pumped into the sealed chamber built to 456 instructions contains a number of poisonous gasses, including "12% fluorine". Fluorine, (atomic number 8) is the only gas more reactive than oxygen; flammable substances exposed to pure fluorine at room temperature are likely to burst into flame. It is quite likely that the mixture described might well explode as soon as it was mixed.

Since this organization is actively hunting down Torchwood, wouldn't the guard at the gate recognize Gwen? - sophyl

A forklift carrying a 40-ton Jack-in-the-Block of miraculously quick-drying cement does not move very fast. Johnson and her team could probably catch up to it while walking. - sophyl

After Rhys moved the oil tanker with its keys conveniently left in the ignition across the road, he blew it up with a hand gun, thereby setting the oil on fire. Could not happen. Unless Rhys was using special hollow point, armour piercing bullets and one hell of a big gun. There have actually been papers written on this stale, overused-by-unimaginative-writers trope. - sophyl

World's slowest car chase - baddies in souped-up sedan can't catch up with a jcb doing about 8 miles an hour before they blow up the tanker (which couldn't actually be blown up by a handgun) that blocks the baddies path? Also, why didn't aforementioned baddies just drive round blazing tanker on the huge grass verges that were on either side of blazing tanker in the road. - flobberchops - Because of the "Keep off the Grass sign"> - ffrengig_moron - [sorry, thought it was funny ... - Silver]

There were sentries at the gate on the way in, so why didn't they stop Torchwood on their way out? - sophyl




Day Three

Pertaining to the warehouse ...

1. Where did they get the sofa?

2. And the office chairs/desks

3. Oil drums? Okay ...

4. I know it was blurry ... but had they somehow got a kitchen?

5. ... and pots and pans? *beans*

6. Speaking of breaking in ... where did Ianto manage to get his Crowbar of Doom?

7. How did they get sufficient electrity and Internet access in a derelict warehouse? - helenscho

8. How did Jack get clean? How was there running water in the abandoned warehouse? I'm sure utility companies tend to shut down these supplies if no one is paying for them. - joymaro

If they keep track of their tech, why didn't someone notice the contact lenses were missing before Gwen showed up with them? It did seem like she had them for a while - diggybear

How was Lois (a mere secretary) allowed to get so close to the 456 wearing the contact lenses etc without someone telling her to back away...and why was she allowed in the room at all? - helenscho

If I recall Reset correctly (it's been awhile though, so this might be bogus), Team!Torchwood were able to hear what Copley and the Nurse were saying to Martha...so why did they only have clumsy lip-reading software after that? - magicmalcom

Why would Gwen (ex-policewoman) need to teach Jack (ex-intergalatical conman) and Ianto (ex-petty thief and cyberwoman smuggler) how to be a criminal? - alinoradesancto

Alice knew enough to not use her own phone to ask about Jack but then only went outside her own house to make the call? - alinoradesancto

Although at the beginning of the episode Jack appears in borrowed clothing, he has apparently still managed to hang onto his own boots despite apparently previously losing everything.




Day Four

Six words: Virus. Released. From. Air. Tight. Tank.

How come Dekker (or whatever his name, the bastard who was sooo happy and in glee about Stephen being killed) survived? Wasn't the poison suppose to be spontaneous, as in: "It's too late, I already breathed it" fatal. He surely breathed some before putting those protecting clothes...? - elanor12

The man who prepares for any and every eventuality, walks into a room housing a hostile alien terducken encased in a poison filled tank, with just a handgun as a show of support for the man who may or may not be his boyfriend. No gas mask just in case the bullets from his handgun actually manage to shatter the bullet-proof glass and release the poisonous air into the room. No, sorry, don't buy it. - sophyl

Also, didn't Jack know enough about aliens and the probable atmosphere of the tank to realize that shooting at it, with the intention to break it, while Ianto was in the room, was a very very bad idea??? - joymaro

Viruses do not kill immediately. Repeat, viruses do not kill immediately. That is a physical impossibility against all the laws of nature. It cannot happen. Viruses infect the body, mutate, attack cells and then kill the host. At the most, Ianto and everyone else at Thames House should be in quarantine somewhere while a cure is sought. - sophyl

After killing everyone, the virus just disappeared so it was almost immediately safe for anyone else to enter the building? - sophyl

And if the 456 killed everyone on the planet, wouldn't they also be killing their one chance to acquire more of their drug? - sophyl

Oh and how did Ianto get in there without protection? They knew the 456 had threatened before with poison, and they didn't think to protect themselve before saying "You're leaving or it's war"? Come on! It's Ianto! Always prepared! - elanor12



Day Five

Why the hell does Andy, who has never even met Ianto (at least on TV) ask Gwen if he was gay? Is that really the first thing on his mind while he is on his way to tell the family about Ianto´s death? - sawyer4kate

ohnson's crew have been monitoring Torchwood and its computer system for years? Without Tosh noticing? My arse they did. - [Unknown site tag] - - They watched but obviously didn't know much about the Hub because they had to give Jack 5 minutes to make sure he was inside properly to blow it up. - diggybear

Exactly how did Spears manage to record anything with the lenses when there was absolutely no computer or laptop working at that moment to record anything??? Unless of course the lenses have an internal hd or something... which I highly doubt. You'd still have to press "rec" somewhere - di_br

The army stop chasing Gwen, Rhys and children despite the 456 only just being destroyed - surely they wouldn't have recieved the order yet. - thehubsitter

So ... Jack sends a sound signal to destroy the 456, right? So ... there should be more 456 in big Millions of Children Carrying Space Ships in the sky right? Especially since sound - even Magic Child Singing in Falsetto Sound - can't actually travel in space ... - kholran


General/Overall

MARTHA?! OMG WHERE THE HELL WAS MARTHA DURING ALL OF THIS? DID SHE NOT TRY TO CALL THE DOCTOR? - joymaro

UNIT were ready to blow up the whole planet with the Osterhagen Key when the Dalek's arrived on Dr Who, but here they just shrugged their shoulders and did nothing? - flobberchops

So they only way the 456 can come down and threaten you is if you build them an airtight glass chamber for them to live in. Here's an idea - don't build the chamber! - flobberchops

They blew up TW to keep Jack quiet and preserve their secret doing sin 1965. What made them think the aliens would keep quiet about 1965? - flobberchops

What about the magic self-cleaning glass of the 456's tank? The 456 sneezes all over the place every 5 seconds only for it to instantly disappear... - i_bananas

Why did the 456 need the kids to be rounded up, when they could have just beamed/used their Magic Fire of Teleportation© to pick them up from their playgrounds using in-depth knowledge of world time zones and kiddies' play times?

Everyone in the world was in complete compliance with the UK - wtf? Even Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Korea? Really?? They just agreed to go with what us Brits were telling them to do? Talk about neglect of current affairs in the oh-so-real world of Torchwood: Children of Earth. I mean ... even France hates us, and we're not at war/ political conflict with them!!

For two seasons, we've been told that "the 21st century is when everything changes," and we've believed it because Jack, a time agent from the 51st century knows what is going to happen in our time. I can accept that he doesn't know small events such as cannibals, fairies, sleeper agents, night travelers and even Abbadon, but an event so large that every politician, bureaucrat, soldier/marine and government in the world is a willing participant (and how realistic is that) should have made the history books. If the entire premise of Torchwood is to be believed, then Jack should have known about the 456, he should have seen them coming. - sophyl

Why did the scar on Ianto's cheek never start to scab? Even after 3 days, it would have got at least a little crusty - helenscho - The only reason I medically think for this is that he had some kind of blood illness that no one knew about (even the writers!). Like leukemia or AIDS. Delightful. [- Silver]

NOTE: Ianto's scar stays bright red to draw attention to it. Just as all of the bender, gay boy, taking it up the ass, pervert, who's the queer, I can smell it on him references, a scar shaped exactly like a lambda, the international symbol for gay pride, was used to draw attention to the fact Ianto was gay/bi/it's just Jack. - sophyl








As before, add your suggestions here! Tell your Torchwood buddies and lets see how many we get ...

Contest any 'plot holes' here too. If you can think of an explanation for them (that's viable beyond 'A WIZARD DID IT!') just post it here and I'll see whether or not I'll change/ remove it.

Maybe we could do a thread for S1/S2 plot holes? We have had to ignore quite a few ... :-P

Comments

[candi-apple-red.livejournal.com]

Nice to see we are all capable of logical thought - unlike some people. I certainly agree with all of the above issues.

Day Four/Five - (Not that I really want to think about it.) Ianto was not wearing his suit jacket when he went off to Thames House with Jack, but yet he *did* have it on after his "demise" when Gwen pulled back the red sheet. So.... somebody just nicked out and acquired a new jacket for him??

[a-silver-story.livejournal.com]

I don't remember him wearing his suit jacket in the morgue, but I'll go back and check.


*runs to check*



He wasn't wearing his jacket. You can just about see

WARNING: I have linked you to a picture of an event that I believe never happened. (http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx352/a_silver_story/nojacket.jpg)

[candi-apple-red.livejournal.com]

It still looks to me like he is wearing a jacket (as opposed to just his waistcoat and shirt sleeves), but due to it being an event that I also believe never happened, I can't be positive.

[a-silver-story.livejournal.com]

You can see teh white shirt on his shoulders just about. There are also no lapels or change in the direction of pinstripe where his jacket would be, or shoulder pads. I think your eyes just want CoE to be as shit as we all know it truly is :P

[a-silver-story.livejournal.com]

You can see his sleeve in this shot: Another picture of the thing that never happened (it can't have - there were no stopwatches!) (http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx352/a_silver_story/nojacket2.jpg)

[flobberchops.livejournal.com]

Another one for you.

Clem is the only adult in the world affected by the 456 in the same way as the children. One would think this would make him intensely interesting to the government who is charged with dealing with this crisis.

However, the bad guys show no interest in him/make no effort to find him/can't find him (despite the fact that he has been shown on national television and is in a state-run nursing home that the state is presumably paying for as he is on benefits and therefore they would have information on him up the wazzoo) until they intercept Torchwood's trace on him.

Even then, it takes so long for them to get around to go to collect him, it gives Gwen plenty of time to get there from Cardiff, speak to him, go back to Cardiff, get blown up, do a runner in a lorry full of potatoes, meet with Lois, help Ianto rescue Jack etc etc etc.

[a-silver-story.livejournal.com]

Clem wasn't on television - the nurses filmed him then emailed the file to the police, and because the police were inundated they hadn't had time to watch it yet - which is why super!Gwen found it first. Johnson's team only discovered him after Ianto had run Gwen's search and discovered his true identity linking him with the events of 1965 and Torchwood,, and then sending a team to bring him in. I agree it is unlikely that he really could have avoided them on foot until - what was it? Day three? - but since we don't really know the extent of his Glimpse of Alien Light Induced powers, we can't really say.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

but since we don't really know the extent of his Glimpse of Alien Light Induced powers

And isn't that another nitpick? Did Clem get his super secret powers of smell and ability to be used as a transmitter from simply being on the right road at the right time? Or was it an inherent ability, in which case OMG, what an amazing coincidence that out of all the kids in orphanages, they just happened to pick on a gifted kid to sacrifice.

[jpren678.livejournal.com]

Not sure if someone told that.

End of day one after the explosion, we see Gwen receive a tongue of fire going out of the ground in full face. She crash after. Begin of day 2, she have no burn on her face, just trouble with vision and can't hear anything.

I am sorry but someone who receive a proximity fire have mark after that (hair burn etc)

French speaker

[a-silver-story.livejournal.com]

Good point! I've added it.

[nyjen-nejen.livejournal.com]

If I recall Reset correctly (it's been awhile though, so this might be bogus), Team!Torchwood were able to hear what Copley and the Nurse were saying to Martha...so why did they only have clumsy lip-reading software after that?

just a note for that - i think they mentioned them being prototypes, cos martha's got destroyed when that mummy insect thing turned up at the farm. So that might explain why they couldn't hear anything.



Stupid CoE should never have happened and from reading all of this is impossible anyway. Makes me feel better

[chibifukurou]

I just know I'm going to think of more after I post this, but here are the plotholes I noticed in Day 1 that I didn't see mentioned.

Day 1. Where is Myfanwy?

Does it strike anybody else as odd that while the 456 are obsessed with getting every single child they didn't kick up a fuss when a child went missing in 1965?

What is the likelihood of the extremely paranoid Torchwood and Unit agencies automatically trusting the 456 to deliver a viable cure for a virus?

When did Jack and Ianto have time to run a background check on Dr. Rupesh?

If all the kids were in school why would a girl who wasn't dressed in a school uniform and whose mother was on her way to work be in the same place as Gwen?

How did Johnson's team know that they needed someone to gain Torchwood's trust before the 456 even showed up?

Even if Jack couldn't feel the bomb inside his abdomen what is the likelihood of him just happening to put his hand on a scanner that would show the bomb?

[harriella.livejournal.com]

"Hello, remember the rift, that volatile entity the hub is centered..." - AND just why were there no weevil sightings/spacejunk/people thrown through time during the whole 456 Week?

"MARTHA?! OMG WHERE THE HELL WAS MARTHA DURING ALL OF THIS? DID SHE NOT TRY TO CALL THE DOCTOR? - joymaro" - she was on her honeymoon, on another planet?

"For two seasons, we've been told that "the 21st century is when everything changes," and we've believed it because Jack, a time agent from the 51st century knows what is going to happen in our time." - Time is in flux?

mine! - So how come Northern Ireland is no longer part of the United Kingdom? (Frobisher sending greetings to the 456 from *long list of countrys*)

[msemmaloo.livejournal.com]

Just found this thread, love it! Covers just about everything I thought when I watched the abomination called COE. When the Rift opened before, all sorts of space-and-time beings came through (anybody remember the Roman soldier?) Where were they? But for me the biggest plot hole was the entire transformation of Gwen Cooper. Suddenly she's a sweet and loving Madonna figure (when she referred to Rhys as 'my beloved' I almost lost my cookies) who knows everything about computers and and evasion tactics. Absolutely pathetic.

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

If Tosh prepared for a possible invasion of the hub with a time lock and didn't tell anyone about it, how come she'd have no plan for anything else?
This is the woman who used the wrong plans to get an alien device to work.

Viruses are technically not alive; they need a host to survive. Some viruses (like HIV) die quickly without a host, some do not. But almost all have a long incubation period. Those that do not, like ebola, burn themselves out quickly because they kill the host without leaving them time to jump to a bunch of other hosts.

And no one cares about Myfanwy? I'd think Ianto and Jack would at least worry about her *some*.

[drop-down-dead.livejournal.com]

XD This gave me a giggle. With the re-run of CoE on Watch I needed something amusing like this.

Uh... about Jack being blown up and growing back and there possibly being loads of Jacks out there... I think someone came up with an explaination that Jack only regrows from the largest part left, or where most of the parts gather (can't remember if that was a fan theory or RTD himself said it)

[aperfectscar.livejournal.com]

A general one: they apparently only want pre-pubescent children yet Frobisher's elder daughter is still affected?

As for:

Exactly how did Spears manage to record anything with the lenses when there was absolutely no computer or laptop working at that moment to record anything??? Unless of course the lenses have an internal hd or something... which I highly doubt. You'd still have to press "rec" somewhere

I thought she was just bluffing.

[aperfectscar.livejournal.com]

Also on Ianto's cut I found it very intriguing that on the Declassified GDL is all out of costume and in his own clothes, but with the cut makeup still on?

[a-silver-story.livejournal.com]

He said in Torchwood Magazine that after filming, he would go down to the pub with his scar still on and show off about crawling out of explosions.

I assume he'd done his bit of filming for the day, and was about to go and do just that ;)

[a-silver-story.livejournal.com]

She could have been - but then why the flashbacks of Lois showing her how to use them? And it would be a pretty huge bluff - what if Green had demanded to see the tapes? The whole overthrowing of the government depended on them. Had Green demanded to see then and none surfaced, he could have called her bluff and gone on.

About the bomb in the stomach again

[(Anonymous)]

The Doctor said that if the nuclear power station exploded, the rift would tear the planet apart. I realize that the bomb inside Jack was much smaller, but Johnson and her team must definitely know how volatile the rift is. Did they mean to blow up the planet? And btw, if the blast radius was two miles, wouldn't Johnson and her team still be affected by it? Or at least by the shock wave?

[kausingkayn.livejournal.com]

I love you.

[watchthehorns.livejournal.com]

I adore this!!! It really gave me a giggle :)

However here is a thought pertaining to the explaination of all things holey...

> Dreams rarely make any coherent sense (see above plot holes in general [I have explained all the plot holes in one go! Yay me!])

> Dreams do not need to follow logical reasoning (Lois getting Bridget’s password, the building of the 456’s tank [I mean really], Gwen being able to pass by the guard unrecognised, the lack of rift activity)

> In dreams people’s character and behaviour is different to reality (Gwen Cooper's Mother Teresa act, Ianto not being his logical and sensible self)

> In dreams the laws of nature and physics don't matter (Virus’ killing instantly, the lack of death after the rather large and deadly explosion, the unrealistic concrete ‘episode’)

> Dreams (especially nightmares) play on fears and paranoia (Torchwood being under surveillance despite Tosh’s probable security procedures, the death of Ianto, the sudden and apparently unforeseen return of the 456, the Doctor and Martha not being around to help)

> Dreams often include things we would see on a daily basis and are familiar even if they are not in the right location (Arriva Wales [I thought I was going mad when I first noticed that! I mean talk about lack of effort!])

> In dreams coincidences are allowed (the keys left in the oil tanker, Jack’s vortex manipulator surviving the destruction of Torchwood where practically nothing else did allowing him to leave, just so happening to find a scanner to pick up the bomb in his stomach)

I could go on but I am sick of re-watching the episodes to find any new mistakes (I don’t think I actually got any not mentioned here anyway.) So here is my theory, the plot holes are deliberate, Jack (despite his usual lack of sleep [and if I had dreams like this I wouldn’t either]) had a rather nasty dream which followed the normal (lack of) rules of dream world. This theory allows all diehard Torchwood fans to watch CoE and cry at the devastating death of Ianto in the knowledge that just after the screen goes blank Jack wakes up sweating and shaking needing to be ‘comforted’ by Ianto who will of course be required to prove to Jack in certain ways that he is still very much alive.
This also allows RTD to hold up his hands and say “Wow you guys are clever you noticed all my DELIBERATE mistakes (y’know like teachers used to do when you were little and pointed out their errors) and were even clever enough to see that it was all a horrific experiment with the human ‘what if’ function and none of it really happened. See you guys for the real Series 3 of Torchwood where Ianto will be very much alive and Gwen Cooper will be as annoying as she used to be” (This is a hint BBC!)